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97 XV 750. Crank, No Spark.

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97 XV 750. Crank, No Spark.

PostAuthor: HITCAINTGRUS » Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:49 am

Managed to charge up and install a new battery today.
Went thru the harness etc and managed to get it cranking over with the spark plugs out.
Run/kill switch works.
Key/Ignition switdch works
Headlight works, high and low beam.
Horns work.
Indicators work.
Neutral lights on.
Engine cranks with the key.

But No spark at the high tension leads.

There's 12V at the coils.
When you turn key on and run switch on - there's 12V at the HT leads, but no high voltage pulsing spark while it cranks.
Went thru all the connectors under the seat and checked fuses.
Had a quick look in the manual and it talks about igniter & coils, stator and pickup

Is there anything that possibly hasn't been connected that needs to be connected for HT spark at the leads from the coils?
Any way to tell whats bad? (Coils, igniter, stator or pickup?).
Any idea which is most likely to be the culprit?
Normally the igniters are pretty reliable I thought... why would 12v be at the HT leads when key and run switch are on?

I'm hoping there's something simple I've missed.
Now that it has power and cranks, my plan was to get spark - then move on to re-assemble the carbs, and get fuel, and see if it will start and run.
I'm surprised there's no spark given that everything else electrical seems to work just fine.

Thanks in advance - I'm sure others have been here before me.
Madness takes it's toll - Please have exact change handy.

"Some say he eats Sid-chrome spanners for breakfast, and drinks brake fluid to wash them down, while others say he couldn't drive a greasy stick up a dogs date with a mallet, all we know is he's called HITCAINTGRUS (Head In The Clouds, @$$ IN The Gutter, R US) enterprises inc" (Said in your best Jeremy Clarkson voice impersonation).
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Re: 97 XV 750. Crank, No Spark.

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:26 am

Locate the TCI, it should be behind the battery box and you can access it by removing the box behind the left side cover. There are 2 plugs, the smaller one is the PU coils. Check the wires to make sure they are not shorted to ground. There is a spec in the service manual to measure their resistance..... The larger plug should have 5 wires, with the ignition on, you should have 12v on the red/white wire and ground on the black wire. The black/white wire should be open. It comes from the safety switches and will kill the TCI if it is grounded. The Orange wire goes to the Rear (#1) cylinder coil and the grey wire goes to the front cylinder coil. Let us know what you find.
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
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SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

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Re: 97 XV 750. Crank, No Spark.

PostAuthor: HITCAINTGRUS » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:49 pm

Fantastic - I am on it next couple days and will report back.

When you say safety switches - can earth out the TCI so theres no spark at the HT leads, what are these safety switches? (Kickstand/side stand down? center stand down?)

Just trying to figure if I have something not connected like some safety switch that's shutting down the TCI but not sure what it might be... for e.g. I have the gas tank off atm so there's a 2 pin plug for the fuel sender not connected - tried connecting that and it made no difference to my HT leads when cranking with the plugs out so the stators turning and presumably pickups are sending the pulse timing to the TCI which is sending 12V power to both coils - but from there no High Voltage gets to the HT leads as if the coils arent recieving a pulshed 12V to excite them to discharge a HV to the HT leads.

There's also 4 small black oblong plugs coming from the harness right on the backbone of the frame under where the gas tank mounts onto the frame, and I am wondering if they go to the carbs.. or some map sensor or something in the air box? Would they need to be connected for the TCI to pulse and give High Voltage at the plug leads?

Just so it's clear I am not trying to start her yet - I have to reassemble the carb's and put all the air boxes on vacuum line to the petcock etc before I am ready to add gas and try to start her.

I just didn't want to connect all that up until I have electrical sorted out and working first. I.e. not add to my problems with petrol issues until I have electrical sorted properly first.

I noticed a spade connector on at least one of the carbys so are there safety switches associated with the fuel system that can shut down the TCI and that's what I am up against since my carbs aren't assembled and bolted on yet? Do those connect to any of the 4 plugs on the harness under the tank maybe?

Figuring this all out is proving "interesting", as we didn't pull it all apart, we bought it in boxes as parts...so its a giant jig saw puzzle at the moment.

My rear brake lever is off at the moment and presumably that has a switch operates the rear brake light so if this isn't connected is that possibly one of these "safety switches" that you speak of which shut down the TCI?

Is this TCI what others refer too as the Igniter or Regulator Rectifier (R/R)? What does TCI stand for?... "Something or other" Control Interface?

Just trying to get my head round this.. usually I am a quick learner but this is trying me. Sorry if I am jumping all over the place, I have a lot of new questions after each day I spend working on her, trying to nut it out with the manual...but I am making good progress each day...

Without plugs in ie no compression she cranks over fine and starter sounds OK.

With plugs and no spark...the starter makes a god awful cranking noise....is that normal for the viragos?.. or is that not going to work once I get everything else operational and with oil pressure and fuel etc the compression will be right up there to normal specs. Everyone talks about starter clutch noise issues, and I am guessing that's the issue I probably have.

See one day and have another dozen questions. :bg:
Madness takes it's toll - Please have exact change handy.

"Some say he eats Sid-chrome spanners for breakfast, and drinks brake fluid to wash them down, while others say he couldn't drive a greasy stick up a dogs date with a mallet, all we know is he's called HITCAINTGRUS (Head In The Clouds, @$$ IN The Gutter, R US) enterprises inc" (Said in your best Jeremy Clarkson voice impersonation).
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Location: Perth West Aust Flag
Bike year & model: 1997 Yamaha 750 Virago (Basket case no longer, now Licensed and ready to ride!).
Sex: Male

Re: 97 XV 750. Crank, No Spark.

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:16 pm

HITCAINTGRUS wrote:Fantastic - I am on it next couple days and will report back.

When you say safety switches - can earth out the TCI so theres no spark at the HT leads, what are these safety switches? (Kickstand/side stand down? center stand down?) Side Stand, Clutch switch, neutral switch.

Just trying to figure if I have something not connected like some safety switch that's shutting down the TCI but not sure what it might be... for e.g. I have the gas tank off atm so there's a 2 pin plug for the fuel sender not connected - tried connecting that and it made no difference to my HT leads when cranking with the plugs out so the stators turning and presumably pickups are sending the pulse timing to the TCI which is sending 12V power to both coils - but from there no High Voltage gets to the HT leads as if the coils arent recieving a pulshed 12V to excite them to discharge a HV to the HT leads. Can't "Assume" anything! You can use a standard VM, one with a needle, not a digital. Set it on milivolt scale and take one side to ground and the other to the PU coil colored lead and you should see the pulse if the PU is working properly. The TCI does not send 12v to the coils, it sends a interrupt pulse on the Orange or Gray wires at the proper time to cause the coil to discharge.

There's also 4 small black oblong plugs coming from the harness right on the backbone of the frame under where the gas tank mounts onto the frame, and I am wondering if they go to the carbs.. or some map sensor or something in the air box? Would they need to be connected for the TCI to pulse and give High Voltage at the plug leads? No Map sensors or wires going to the carbs. Check the wire colors, one of them may be the side stand switch, if it is not plugged in it will kill the spark.

Just so it's clear I am not trying to start her yet - I have to reassemble the carb's and put all the air boxes on vacuum line to the petcock etc before I am ready to add gas and try to start her.

I just didn't want to connect all that up until I have electrical sorted out and working first. I.e. not add to my problems with petrol issues until I have electrical sorted properly first.

I noticed a spade connector on at least one of the carbys so are there safety switches associated with the fuel system that can shut down the TCI and that's what I am up against since my carbs aren't assembled and bolted on yet? Do those connect to any of the 4 plugs on the harness under the tank maybe? No electrical connections on the carbs unless it is a carb heater connection.

Figuring this all out is proving "interesting", as we didn't pull it all apart, we bought it in boxes as parts...so its a giant jig saw puzzle at the moment.

My rear brake lever is off at the moment and presumably that has a switch operates the rear brake light so if this isn't connected is that possibly one of these "safety switches" that you speak of which shut down the TCI? No, that won't affect the TCI.

Is this TCI what others refer too as the Igniter or Regulator Rectifier (R/R)? What does TCI stand for?... "Something or other" Control Interface? Same as Igniter, TCI stands for Transistor Controlled Ignition.

Just trying to get my head round this.. usually I am a quick learner but this is trying me. Sorry if I am jumping all over the place, I have a lot of new questions after each day I spend working on her, trying to nut it out with the manual...but I am making good progress each day...

Without plugs in ie no compression she cranks over fine and starter sounds OK.

With plugs and no spark...the starter makes a god awful cranking noise....is that normal for the viragos?.. or is that not going to work once I get everything else operational and with oil pressure and fuel etc the compression will be right up there to normal specs. Everyone talks about starter clutch noise issues, and I am guessing that's the issue I probably have. Starter issues were only on the early models prior to 86 with the exception of the 84/85 1000..

See one day and have another dozen questions. :bg:
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

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bstig60
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1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male

Re: 97 XV 750. Crank, No Spark.

PostAuthor: totallyredvirago » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:25 pm

97 has a single pickup. there is no black/white wire it is blue/yellow. this wire can and will kill spark to the TCI.
this wire has givin me grief for awhile.
stock wiring this wire gets 12v to keep from killing spark.
bare bones this wire gets a ground to keep from killing spark.
so what does this mean?
find this blue/yellow wire from the TCI. cut it from the harness. splice in a key on power wire to it and see if you get spark. (i want you to put power in this wire to the TCI not the harness). if putting power into this blue/yellow wire dont give you spark. then remove the key on power wire and run a ground to it. see if you get spark...........dan
82 xv 750 skull on grips,levers,3rd brake and side covers.soft bags and tool bag, relay for coils, fresh inferno red, paint code PEL(red)

no time to do it right..always enough time to do it twice.
it is if is isnt :con:
If it went together easy... you forgot something.
when in doubt.... ground it out!

http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=35947 (bare bones wiring81-83 xv750)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=48895 (91 up xv750 bare bones)
http://www.viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=36987(84-85 xv700,1000 bare bones)

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Re: 97 XV 750. Crank, No Spark.

PostAuthor: bstig60 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:49 pm

Your right, Dan. The Haynes manual wiring diagram is wrong......
Bill
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

Please take the time to edit your profile to show your location. City, State/Province, and Country.
It is easier to help you if we know where you are.


SERVICE MANUAL DOWNLOAD LINK
http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=220&t=31501#p279545

Image
User avatar
bstig60
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Posts: 13377
Images: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Sharpes, Florida Flag
Bike year & model: 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100LC Cruiser,
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 Touring
2007 Honda ST1300A
1987 Honda TLR200
Sex: Male



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